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Dwylbtzle



Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 4483
Location: Sun Valley, Idaho

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old Geezer wrote:
Dwylbtzle wrote:
as I understand it
gore only wanted to re-count primarily demo dominated districts
and that's what the state of florida turned him down on
and then the supreme court upheld that decision

if he'd asked for a state-wide re-count
they might have given it to him

i don't understand the 18 month thing

but only 45 years till the rainforest is gone sounds pretty horrible


Ok he also had the write in votes of the service men and women blocked and not counted as I recall. It's also vastly more complex than I realized. States do NOT have to have elections, to elect the electoral college dudes. The states have the authority to just straight up chose them, without an election.

This is really interesting: http://www.re-quest.net/g2g/politics/election-2000/supct-1212.pdf

I think what it says (I could only stand 9 of the 65 pages) is where Gore got screwed (from his point of view) was that the Florida Supreme Court ordered a recount that not indifferent to the voter, ie the recount cared about Demo vs Repub rather than intent of the voter.

OK then what, if anything does Gore's NOT greening up his own house until the issue attracted national attention like this:

Armed with Gore's utility bills for the last two years, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research charged Monday that the gas and electric bills for the former vice president's 20-room home and pool house devoured nearly 221,000 kilowatt-hours in 2006, more than 20 times the national average of 10,656 kilowatt-hours.

Does that tell you anything about him?


ok
i had one thing wrong:
florida didn't turn gore down
and then the supreme court upheld it

florida courts ordered there to be a re-count
but only demo districts that gore wanted
and then the supreme court reversed that

I DO remember something about Gore trying some ploy that would stop
at least some
of the military votes from being counted
but I don't remember what it was exactly
I mean
I don't remember what his argument or PLOY was, anymore
something about the timing of when they were sent in, or something, maybe
maybe it was about the way he was SELECTIVELY asking for ONLY CERTAIN re-counts

THE NEW YORK TIMES obtained all the ballots
and a consortium of news organizations counted them, by hand
a few months after the election
AND THEY SAY THEMSELVES
that IF gore had counted the whole state over
he MIGHT HAVE WON
BARELY
IF "county canvassing boards would have reached the same conclusions about the disputed ballots that the consortium's independent observers did."
but even if he'da JUST got the districts HE WANTED counted
he still lost


gore asked for only districts where he thought he had an advantage
to be re-counted
florida said OK
but the supreme court said NO!


read it right here:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DEEDB1338F931A25752C1A9679C8B63
this is the new york times! Shocked
hardly a right wing rag! Rolling Eyes

ANYWAY:
it was SO close
it came down to about 800 DISPUTED hanging chad defective ballots
maybe it was SO close
there would NEVER have been a way to definitively
and correctly
count those ballots
THE COIN LANDED ON ITS EDGE!
and then one TIED (basically) candidate
pulled some slimey dishonest trick
or TRIED to
and it didn't work
and THAT ended the tie with the other guy getting the decision
TOO BAD

so justice prevailed
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Dwylbtzle



Joined: 26 Jan 2007
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Location: Sun Valley, Idaho

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E6DA1F3BF933A15752C1A9669C8B63
ok,
apparently, certain overseas ballots
about 1400 of them
were thrown out
without being opened
because of technical reasons that have always been used to disqualify mailed-in ballots
like missing postmarks
Canvassing boards did this
not gore

then the republicans complained about that
because
of the ones that WERE counted
Bush was winning those by a large margin

so lieberman said "go ahead and count them"

and there was a possible court case being contemplated
but the whole thing ended before anything came of it

1420 overseas ballots were never counted
Of those that were counted, 1,380 were for Mr. Bush and 750 were for Vice President Al Gore

so
once again
do you count those or not?
the answer to that question throws the election
one way or another
just like the way you SOMEHOW decide
(IF you can somehow decide) Confused
what a goddamned hanging chad meant Rolling Eyes
throws the election one way or another
BECAUSE IT WAS THAT freakin' CLOSE! Shocked
there is a margin of uncertainty that essentially means
the coin landed on its edge
it was an exact goddamned supernatural TIE
as far as I'M concerned Confused

and one man tried to pull some slimey trick
so the best man won
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Old Geezer



Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 526
Location: Motown The "D" Baby

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're going to make me read all 65 pages pages aren't you???? Sad

It is a paper by the supreme court itself (well the staff I am sure) that tells why they did what they did.

Scalia has been saying it was a no-brainer 6-3, 7-2 something like that decision, not even close. and if Gore hadn't had brought it there, the supreme court didn't go looking for the case.

As I recall, Dubya actually brought it to the supremes. But Gore brought it on.
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Dwylbtzle



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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GORE BROUGHT THE CASE ABOUT RECOUNTING THE VOTES TO THE FLORIDA SUPREME COURT
BUT HE ONLY WANTED TO COUNT FOUR DEMO DOMINATED DISTRICTS
AND THEY TOLD HIM HE SHOULD GET THAT RE-COUNT

BUSH BROUGHT IT TO THE US SUPREME COURT
AND THEY STRUCK DOWN THE FLORIDA DECISION
SO THERE WAS NO FURTHER RECOUNT
AND THAT FINALLY ENDED THE WHOLE THING

MEANWHILE
SOME OF THE MILITARY BALLOTS WERE THROWN OUT
WITHOUT BEING OPENED
BY DISTRICT VOTE COUNTING OFFICIALS
BECAUSE THEY LACKED POSTMARKS
OR BECAUSE OF OTHER TECHNICALITIES
THAT HAD ALWAYS BEEN IN FORCE
TO DISQUALIFY CERTAIN OVERSEAS BALLOTS
BEFORE

THE REPUBS STARTED MAKING NOISES THAT THAT WASN'T FAIR
SO LIEBERMAN
(A FAIR GUY)
STATED PUBLICY THAT THEY SHOULD GO AHEAD AND COUNT ALL THOSE BALLOTS

BUT THEY NEVER DID!
BECAUSE
THEN THE WHOLE THING ENDED BEFORE THAT WENT ANY FURTHER
AND 1420 OVERSEAS BALLOTS WERE NEVER COUNTED
AND THEY WERE GOING FOR BUSH
TWO TO ONE

AND
EVEN WITHOUT COUNTING THOSE
THE NEW YORK TIMES FOUND THAT
EVEN IF THE DISTRICTS GORE WANTED COUNTED
HAD BEEN COUNTED
BUSH STILL WOULDA WON

SO BUSH FRIKKIN WON

AND HE WON FAIRLY

NO-ONE STOLE THE ELECTION

GORE TRIED AND FAILED

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Dwylbtzle



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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

White House Issues Climate Report
By SETH BORENSTEIN,AP
Posted: 2008-05-30 00:14:28
WASHINGTON (May 29) - Under a court order and four years late, the White House Thursday produced what it called a science-based "one-stop shop" of specific threats to the United States from man-made global warming.


America's Climate Threats



While the report has no new science in it, it pulls together different U.S. studies and localizes international reports into one comprehensive document required by law. The 271-page report is notable because it is something the Bush administration has fought in the past.

Andrew Weaver, a Canadian climate scientist who was not involved in the effort, called it "a litany of bad news in store for the U.S."

And biologist Thomas Lovejoy, one of the scientists who reviewed the report for the federal government, said: "It basically says the America we've known we can no longer count on. It's a pretty dramatic picture of all kinds of change rippling through natural systems across the country. And all of that has implications for people."

White House associate science director Sharon Hays, in a teleconference with reporters, declined to characterize the findings as bad, but said it is an issue the administration takes seriously. She said the report was comprehensive and "communicates what the scientists are telling us."

That includes:

Increased heat deaths and deaths from climate-worsened smog. In Los Angeles alone yearly heat fatalities could increase by more than 1,000 by 2080, and the Midwest and Northeast are most vulnerable to increased heat deaths.

Worsening water shortages for agriculture and urban users. From California to New York, lack of water will be an issue.

A need for billions of dollars in more power plants (one major cause of global warming gases) to cool a hotter country. The report says summer cooling will mean Seattle's energy consumption would increase by 146 percent with the warming that could come by the end of the century.

More death and damage from wildfires, hurricanes and other natural disasters and extreme weather. In the last three decades, wildfire season in the West has increased by 78 days.

Increased insect infestations and food- and waterborne microbes and diseases. Insect and pathogen outbreaks to the forests are causing $1.5 billion in annual losses.

"Finally, climate change is very likely to accentuate the disparities already evident in the American health care system," the report said. "Many of the expected health effects are likely to fall disproportionately on the poor, the elderly, the disabled and the uninsured."

The report was required by a 1990 law which says that every four years the government must produce a comprehensive science assessment of global warming. It had not been done since 2000.

Environmental groups got a court order last year to force the Bush administration to produce the document by the end of this month. Hays said the White House has preferred issuing studies on individual global warming issues, such as an agricultural effects report that was released on Tuesday.

"It's totally begrudging," said Rick Piltz, director of Climate Science Watch at the nonprofit Government Accountability Project, a whistleblowers' organization. "It's important the government go on record honestly acknowledging this stuff."
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Dwylbtzle



Joined: 26 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

just saw some ad...
apparently, this fall, FRONTLINE is gonna have a two-hour consideration
of the global warming thing
they'll probably be pretty fair to both sides of the argument
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Dwylbtzle



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i really don't get this cap and trade carbon tax thing the demos are pushing
i mean
i get the theory--try and get people to put less CO2 in the atmosphere
but
they are gonna charge industries 6 or 7 trillion dollars
(i guess that's above and beyond the trillion obama wants to raise taxes)
and that'll be a tax on everybody, because the industries will just raise their prices
and call it another cost of doing business
gas will go up a buck and a half immediately
therefore food, and everything else that depends upon transportation, will go up

home heating and cooling will go up 45% immediately
natural gas will go up 20%

and they say they will compensate consumers with the money and invest in clean tech
but you know they won't
or not much
they'll just go yippie 6 or 7 trillon more to spend!
and they'll think they HAVE to spend it
because the economy will collapse
(it's bad enough already)
and they will have less gov revenues, across the board
so they will raise taxes more
to make more money
but they won't get more money
they will get less
because the economy will go down even more and more

and no other country will be required to follow this shit
just america
so more and more jobs and industries will go overseas
AND THOSE COUNTRIES WILL JUST POLLUTE MORE

are these people brain dead
or just severely retarded? Mad
OH--OK--JUST TOTALLY INSANE Confused

I CAN SEE WHY SOMEONE MIGHT SEE THAT THE WHOLE THING IS A HOAX
well these fools are a hoax
but i think they are just doing what gov always does
they found a legitimate problem
and found some amazing way to royally screw it up way worse Rolling Eyes

luckily we're safe from this insanity for a bit
even the bill's proponents don't think it could pass congress
and bush has already said he will veto it

but they are hoping the demos will win the presidency

i hope not because mcCain is against a lot of things about it
but lieberman says he thinks "he will come around"

i hope not

not unless MAYBE they can get every other nation on earth to do it at the same time
and that ain't gonna happen
and they'd have to have some iron clad assurance that all the money would either somehow give relief to consumers
but that ain't gonna happen
or they'd have to actually spend any other part of the money on really creating clean cheap energy
but that ain't gonna happen

this is all just the world's biggest tax rip-off justification scheme
that they can do without calling it a tax increase
any fool can see that

these people are fools
and this is yet another foolish notion

i can only hope we can go for the rest of time with hopeless gridlock
with the president in one party
and the congress dominated by the other

that's the safest from government a country can be
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Dwylbtzle



Joined: 26 Jan 2007
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Location: Sun Valley, Idaho

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

full world helium3-energy supply for cost of one pipeline

watching this program, on the science channel, called "moon for sale"
and they're saying that for 16-18 billion, we could go start bringing helium3 back, from the moon
and that's about what it cost to build the alaska pipeline

and the relatively low heat fusion reactors they can make RIGHT NOW, that burn helium3, with today's technology,
could fuel the whole earth, with no pollution, and no co2 emissions
and none of the radioacative leak potential of fission


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&fkt=7280&q=helium3&btnG=Google+Search
helium3 is constantly ejected from the sun
and is not found on the earth because the atmosphere and magnetic field keep it from ever reaching the earth's surface
but it has been concentrating in lunar dust for billions of years
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Dwylbtzle



Joined: 26 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


imagine 70 normal little half-ton pick up trucks
all in a row, going down the road
and they all have half a ton of helium3 in the back
that's enough to power ALL OF THE UNITED STATES' ENERGY NEEDS FOR ONE FULL YEAR! Shocked


THE UNITED STATES, AND RUSSIA HAVE PLANS
RIGHT NOW
TO BE ON THE MOON MINING HELIUM3, BY 2020
THAT COULD EVEN BE ACCELLERATED QUITE A BIT
WITH A CRASH PROGRAM

THE ALASKA PIPELINE WAS DONE BY ONE PRIVATE OIL COMPANY

THIS IS ALL REAL
IT'S POSSIBLE NOW
AND WE ARE GOING TO DO IT
WE CAN DO IT NOW

NO POLLUTION
NO C02
NO RADIOACTIVITY
NO SHIT

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Dwylbtzle



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IF AMERICA PLEDGED TO MATCH EVERY DOLLAR THAT IS CONTRIBUTED BY PRIVATE COMPANIES.
OR INDIVIDUALS, OR OTHER NATIONS
THEN IT WOULD TAKE 9 BILLION IN AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS
TO GET IT STARTED
AND THEN IT WOULD EVENTUALLY PAY FOR ITSELF
THAT'S 4 & 1/2 B2 BOMBERS
Rolling Eyes

FOUR AND A HALF B2 BOMBERS SAVE THE WORLD! Shocked
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Dwylbtzle



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oops

just saw that tv show re-runned
this morning
and i got it wrong
the guy had estimated that the private sector could get it started for 15 billion

also
moon soil is 40% oxygen by weight
because of all the metalic oxides
and if you heat moon dust to 800C under pressure
you get huge wads of pure water! Shocked

so we wouldn't need a constant supply train from earth
we could get all the oxygen and water and metals we would need
TONS OF TITANIUM
right there on site!

THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN
private companies could do it
and are planning to
and many many nations could do it
and are planning to
so WE HAVE to do it
and are planning to
otherwise some militaristic dictatorship could set up shop there first and try and control it exclusively for themselves

i'm just saying
let's go balls to the wall

it only makes sense
and good sense
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Dwylbtzle



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in a letter, geezer writes:

I thought fusion reactors created helium, not burned it.
for instance the sun is the ultimate fusion reactor.
It creates helium as a by product.


normal hydrogen fusion reactors create helium from fusing hydrogen
and the heat has to be so high
it's
so far
impossible to contain it

they have known you could use helium3 in a much cooler cheaper reactor for years
but there was never a source for it
except de-commissioned nuclear weapons

************************

I did not know that.

yup
they showed a working helium3 reactor
and it's contained in this little thing about as big as a home furnace
and it gently glows pale blue or something

the us and russia are SET RIGHT NOW
to begin mining helium3 from the moon by 2020

we could speed that up by at least five or ten years
easily
i say we hurry the fuck up

*********************************************

It seems to me we've lost a lot of our technological
edge, since we abandoned the idea of going to the moon, going to mars,
whatever. That was the zenith of our stuff.

I am with you, lets go and "git er dun"

But I was reading a little in How Stuff works (http://science.howstuffworks.com/fusion-reactor1.htm)
and from there a link to cold fusion's ressurection.
We seemed to think, at one time, anyway, going to the moon wouldn't be necessary.


well
in the sixties
going to the moon was just a stunt
that was good to do before the russians could do the stunt
once we had done the politicallly cool stunt, before them
the russians lost interest in it
so
so did we Rolling Eyes
now it's the solution to our pollution, and energy needs, problems
and it'll pay for itself thousands of times over

big difference Smile

"cold fusion" was something different than helium3 fusion
and it appears to have been fake

some still say it isn't fake
but they can never produce a working cold fusion reactor
Confused
i just saw one (a helium3 reactor) working
on tv
it's working right now
this is real
no-one disputes that it is real

regular hydrogen fusion is real too
but they can never create magnetic fields strong enough to contain it
no matter how much they try
they've been trying for 40 goddamned years! Shocked Mad Evil or Very Mad Exclamation
and it would take about seven whole major regular nuclear reactors to generate the magnetic field
so where's the economy in THAT? Rolling Eyes

this burns gentler and cooler
but it's still very hot and powerful
like the fission reactor in a modern submarine, all it needs to be
is hot enough to power a steam turbine

it's ready to go right now
with OFF THE SHELF technology that we already have

they just never realized there was a huge source of helium3 on the moon
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Dwylbtzle



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW ucla did do a cold fusion thing since the discredit
of the first guys, but it doesn't produce more energy than it takes to get
the reaction going like other techniques. At least it doesn't yet.

It looks like H3 holds the most promise of any technique. the tokamak
reactor is a very old technique. I first heard about it in college in the late 70's.


yeah
the original idea with "cold fusion"
was that certain metals
when brought together under the right conditions
would drive the nucleis of atoms close enough together to fuse

but then that was called a fake
and then
every once in a while someone claims they ALMOST got it
but they never quite get it

with the tokamak hydrogen fusion reactor
they keep pumping more and more insanely huge amounts of electrical energy
to create more and more insanely huge and insanely powerful magnetic fields
essentially to contain a tiny little sun

even if they ever got it to work
it'd probably make everyone on earth sterile or something
or get brain cancer
or go insane

and for 40 billion dollars worth of input
you'd probably get forty billion and 40 cents output

the h3 reactor is small and safe and sane
and it exists right now

until now
whenever anyone talked about helium3 fusion
the speech always ended up with:
... "but there is no source for helium three
so we can eliminate this as a possibility"
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Dwylbtzle



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.technologyreview.com/files/12599/helium3_x220.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/19296/&h=167&w=220&sz=14&hl=en&start=9&tbnid=XOvbcwdnnbocRM:&tbnh=81&tbnw=107&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhelium3%2Breactor%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26ie%3DUTF-8

actual He3 fusion reactor
check out that link
china is going to the moon, this fall
and india is on the way

this He3 stuff IS happening
either we get in on it
in a big way
or we're big losers
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Dwylbtzle



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRAP AND TRADE

question:
if giving back 300 dollars to every taxpayer is supposed to do all these WONDERS for the economy (rebate)
then what will sucking 6.5 trillion OUT of the economy do to it? Rolling Eyes

luckily the bill failed miserably in the senate
it took ten hours to just read it-
(because of all the weird, sneaky, convoluted rules and regulations,
loopholes, mandates, and political escape hatches) Rolling Eyes
and then they couldn't vote it down fast enough
they say the demos who sponsored it were trying to get rid of it the fastest
and the repubs who are against it were trying to drag the proceedings out as long as possible Laughing
because it just looks so bad for the demos
because it's such a joke!

and everyone knows it

it was just some thing that people could cast a meaningless vote FOR
so they could say they tried to do something about global warming
(because they knew it had no chance of passing
so it didn't really matter) Confused

this is yer government at work

totally insane people
PRETENDING they're retarded
or totally retarded people posing as insane

India and China have already said they won't do ANYTHING to reduce
global warming gases if it means curtailing the growth they need to curb poverty
so there is no way this will work just by America committing economic suicide
and they must be laughing at us
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